Politically Speaking: How to disagree
Politically Speaking: Episode 2
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Transcript
Richard Lovette
Welcome to Politically Speaking, an ETSU podcast about freedom and citizenship. Hosted by Dr. Daryl Carter, a professor and scholar of political history.
Each week, we dive into the essential topics of personal freedom and engaged citizenship, exploring what it means to be an active and responsible citizen in today's world.
Join us as we talk politics with members of the ETSU community, asking important questions and seeking meaningful answers.
Dr. Carter
Hello. Today I'm with President Noland. And with us today is Trent White, who is a member of the ETSU board of Trustees as a student member.
Welcome, gentlemen, and welcome.
Dr. Noland
Thanks for having us.
White:
Excited to be here.
Dr. Carter:
Tell us where you are in your academic program right now, Trent.
White
So, I'm currently a senior here at ETSU majoring in political science, minoring in
public administration. So, I'm at the tail end of the journey.
Dr. Carter
Well, you've been in student government. You've been a regular student. How do you feel about the campus? How do you feel about politics right now?
White
There's a lot, a lot of discussion about this, considering there's electionin less than 70 days. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. You turn on the news and it's full force, obviously, as we're approaching that time. But, you know, I think campus is different, a little bit, than the rest of the country. I think everybody's getting situated into the semester, and it's an exciting time, a unique time in our university's history.
And so there's a lot of positive energy out there. I think in the country, there's a lot of, you know, potential hesitancy about what's next for our country and where are we as a nation. But, yeah, it's an interesting, interesting time to be at ETSU.
Dr. Carter
But it's an also interesting time to be an American. So what are you hearing most right now from fellow students about politics?
White
You know, I think there's two different types of responses you hear when people talk about politics. I think some students are engaged and are active in, their political views and engaging with other students about them.
But there's also a group of students that I think want to get their degree and go to work and are not as engaged. I don't know that one is better than the other, but there's definitely two, two types of students I think you see around.
I think we're seeing that across the country.
We saw that with some of the protests where some campuses were aflame and others were, hey, we're busy, we got to go to work. So, we're seeing that on this campus clearly.
Dr. Carter
Thank you. Dr. Noland, higher education as a part of the debate right now in, in American politics, and, people are talking about, you know, budgets and graduation rates and how, higher education helps or hurts, the people it serves.
So what are the biggest challenges confronting higher education today, and how can we go about solving them?
Dr. Noland
Well, Dr. Carter, first, thanks for the opportunity to be with you today and thank you for the leadership that you provide, not only in our campus, but across the higher education system at a regional and national level.
The question regarding issues facing higher education and politics, are similar to issues that have been facing higher education for decades. What I would encourage individuals to do is to step away from what is the noise of the moment, and to look at the issues that have been central from the perspective of educational leaders, as well as students and parents for decades.
That's questions around access, that's questions around affordability, and that's questions around return on the investment and a degree. You know, there's a lot of public opinion polls that question the value of higher education.
And depending upon the poll that you look at, somewhere between 20% of Americans have faith in higher education, to 50% of Americans have questions in higher education.
But when you ask Americans what they feel is best for their children's future, 70% of all Americans want their kids to go to college. And if you ask Tennesseans, 80% of Americans want their kids to go to college.
So the questions around institutions as a whole aren't just focused on higher education institutions. They're focused on any major institution in our country right now. And for whatever reason the public has become skeptical of what is called the establishment.
Dr. Carter
You mention return on investment. Some of our listeners may not know what that means. What is it and how do we define it here at East Tennessee State?
Dr. Noland
Well, there's a lot of ways you can look at return on investment. There's the individual return on investment that a lot of the popular press focuses on. So I go to college, I get a degree, my earnings potential on the back end is escalated.
Research from Georgetown Center for Workforce and Economic Development, a kind of online shop, demonstrates that for individuals aged 24 to 35 with a bachelor's degree, they earn $20,000 more per year than individuals in the same age demographic without a high school degree. But the return on investment is more than just earnings.
If you step back and look at, all of the elements that define a healthy population, those individuals with bachelor's and advanced degrees generally reflect those variables for a healthy population. So there's public benefits and private benefits.
We spent a lot of time focused on private benefits, earnings. But society as a whole, from a public perspective, benefits when you have a better educated population.
Dr. Carter
So it seems like what you're saying is that all of society does well when there's an educated workforce, educated communities, regions, the entire nation?
Dr. Noland
Correct.
And this isn't a new phenomena. We've got a great leader on our campus, Randy Wykoff. And a number of years ago, I had the opportunity to watch one of his presentations, and he had a slide from the Virginia Public Health Bulletin out of the city of Richmond from 1908. And it talked about the primary causes of death in Richmond at the turn of two centuries ago.
And those were preventable stroke, heart disease, and cancer. And in 1908, when leaders in Richmond were identifying interventions that could reverse those three leading causes of death, it was prevention, health care, education, and income. Not a lot has changed since 1908.
Dr. Carter
Trent, will you talk to us a little bit about your return on investment so far and what you're expecting going forward?
White
Yeah, no, I think that's very applicable to me. So I'm a first-generation college student. My parents didn't go to college. I'm from Unicoi County, which is 20 minutes down the road.
But I'll tell you that coming into a place, not knowing really all about it, about the university and about what it would provide, looking at what I know now in terms of what is my potential, what the future looks like now compared to, you know, if I had not gone to a four-year institution, it's very different. And I think, you know, now I'm looking at law school applications and what does that look like?
You know, I mean, that's crazy that that, you know, my parents obviously not lawyers or in that sort of profession, but to have that opportunity I think is unique and it's unique to first generation students, probably.
But here at ETSU, I think the potential is, is high. Well, I think at an institution that have so many first-generation students, you're really speaking to something that is, I think, easily identifiable, recognizable to. So many people on our campus and beyond.
Dr. Carter
You, just recently received a prestigious appointment. Will you talk about that for a moment?
White
Yeah. So, talking about the Truman Scholars?
Dr. Carter
Yes.
White
Alright. So, you know, I had the opportunity last year to apply for the Truman Scholarship, which is a scholarship for students interested in public service, and who like the idea of pursuing a life dedicated to making the lives of others in our country and in the world better. And it was a very rigorous process. I mean, several essays, several interviews. But I got the incredible surprise by Dr. Noland in March, I believe that I actually was accepted, and got the scholarship. And that was a life changing moment for me.
And also for the people that I, you know, I've surround myself with - my family, you know, that that is possible. And that's a perfect example of the return on investment right there.
But that, that I think has opened doors for me that I did not think possible, you know, what kind of school am I going to go to for post-grad and things like that that I wouldn't have thought about beforehand.
Dr. Carter
Thank you. And Dr. Noland, I want to go a little further here into this issue of what we provide in terms of support for the students.
We are a public institution. A lot of our students and faculty and the community does not know how the institution is supported by the state. Can you talk just briefly about how does the State of Tennessee supports East Tennessee State University?
Dr. Noland
Well, I'd be happy to, but I want to follow up on your comment about the recognition for Trustee White and the receipt of the Truman Scholarship is one of the most prestigious recognitions in all of American higher education.
But I learned just last week that here, closer to home, he also received, pretty significant designation. And that is a day in August that in Unicoi County is now Trent White Day.
He will no longer forget my wife's birthday - same day because Trent White Day and my wife's birthday are the exact same day.
White
Both on the Outlook calendar.
Dr. Noland
Both on the Outlook calendar.
But to your question around how does the State of Tennessee support East Tennessee State University, I think if you look at the operations of the institution, about $0.45 on the dollar of what it takes to run ETSU is provided by the state of Tennessee.
So everything from the utilities, the elements that comprise the infrastructure to the campus, to the salaries and benefits that accrue to every single employee at the institution - a significant portion of the elements that make this campus run are provided by the state.
We're moving through one of the most sustained periods of capital investment in the history of the university, and the predominance of that investment has been made by the taxpayers of the State of Tennessee.
You know, we were an institution that was founded in 1911 to improve the quality of life for the people of the region. George L. Carter, a local business person, gave us our land grant. But the city of Johnson City covered all of the cost of utilities for the institution for the better part of the first 15 years of our existence.
So the public component of the institution has been part of our core. That's why our campus is open. That's why we strive to keep tuition and fees affordable.
But this is a public institution.
If were not for the investment of the people in this university, there would not be any ETSU.
Dr. Carter
Well, thank you for explaining that to us. When we think about politically speaking, we're also trying to get away from these narrow, narratives around Democrat, Republican and liberal versus conservative, red state versus blue state. How does the state prioritize higher education?
Because there's tradeoffs there. If you invest here, you may not be able to invest over here. You may invest here in transportation, but not over here. So how does that work in terms of state legislators, regulators, and others making decisions on how to appropriate tax dollars? Because I think a lot of our listeners may not understand that there are real tradeoffs to public policy.
I think we're fortunate, as citizens of the State of Tennessee, to be in a state that has historically made investments in higher education and taken a long term view as they examined those investments. Some years ago, when the state of Tennessee created a lottery scholarship, there could have been a zero sum gain of X versus Y receiving the investment. But they recognized that the best investment you can make is to invest in your people.
So the creation of financial aid scholarships via the lottery guarantee you – one of the individuals on this podcast is a recipient of the Hope Lottery Scholarship – then fast forward 15 years after that point, the investment in Tennessee promised to ensure that any Tennessean has the opportunity to attend a community college at no cost is another investment.
The state has made and I had the great fortune to work in the state for the better part of 20 years. And at no point has there ever been a discussion of stepping away from the investment in higher education. Now, there's been years when our budgets were reduced because they were state downturns, but everyone in state government had their budgets reduced.
But this is a state that, from a long term perspective, historically has viewed investments in higher education as investments in workforce development and investments in the long term future of the state.
Dr. Carter
Thank you. In turn, dovetailing off of that answer there, I like to ask you about, you know, viewpoints. And, you know, the legislature meets every spring semester roughly between January and May to discuss the issues of the state.
And our students and faculty are no different. They discuss their own issues. Maybe it's their own pocketbook issues, but could you talk a little bit about differing viewpoints?
Why is it valuable to have different viewpoints? Why is it, valuable to have people with, perspectives that may differ from yours? And to that end, what can we learn from you and from others about how to engage others who may not think the same way or see the world the same way?
White
Yeah. I mean, I think the first part of that questions about diverse perspectives, is important. I think the answer to that is when you have more people at the seat at the table with a seat at the table, the outcome is always better.
You know, I think, last year and my term as SGA president, you know, there were several
initiatives
and policies that we worked on.
And it's so funny because you look back and the outcome was always bettervwhen we engaged with more people. You know, from a student perspective, if there was a student issue, whatever that may be, when we were discussing where we would, we put the pride walk, talking to students about where the location should be.
The reason it is where it is now is because of those conversations. And had we not been open to those differing viewpoints, it could be in a very different location. But I also think, you know what I've learned from that experience, and also working with faculty and staff to make changes across broader, even academic policies, is that relationships matter early on, when you're trying to make change and when you're trying to lead a group, it's like that foundational perspective is so important because it's how, you long term, in a long term way, make progress.
Dr. Carter
Relationships are very important because the president speaks a lot about this. It's a part of our foundational documents that people come first. And so it's great to hear that those conversations are taking place in your neck of the woods that are taking place on the Board of Trustees and the Student Government Association and so on. Do you feel that you have the opportunity to engage in class and outside of class, with faculty and others in a way that is respectful of dialogue, respect for viewpoint diversity?
How do you feel in that space? Do you feel that we're doing a good job there? And if not, what can we do better?
White
When I think about our campus, I think of a place that is welcoming of all people,
of all ideas. And you see that when folks are protesting out on Borchuck Plaza, and
you see that in the boardroom when there's Board of Trustees meetings. I mean, it's
just an open and free space to have dialogue. But what I think what that means is
we have to come with the understanding that in the modern climate in which we live
politically, socially,
however you want to take it, civil discourse often occurs less in a formative way
and more for performative reasons, right?
Like, I think often when we're having discussions, it's about how do I build my platform, how do I build on how do I get my social media likes, how do I get this? Rather than having a discussion with you to really understand what your opinions are and have an open mind and try to understand where you're coming from, it's more of sometimes of where I'm from. And I think what we do well at ETSU is really dig deep and come to an understanding of who people are.
Why do they think and believe the way that they do? And why don't we learn from that?
Dr. Carter
Thank you.
And, Dr. Noland, you know, as the leader of ETSU, has to balance myriad academic, economic and workforce development, political and policy concerns, along with other issues regarding stakeholders on and off campus.
How do you, as a leader of the institution, help to set the stage for a culture in which everyone has agency and a voice?
Dr. Noland
Well, we're fortunate to be at an institution where for generations we've had a culture. To follow up on Trustee White's comment of formative rather than for performative, where we've had formative conversations. If you go back to the administration of Dr. Stanton, if you go back to the administration of Sidney Gilbreth from the beginning to now, we've worked to create a culture that is constantly focused on mission, and that is a mission of improving quality of life for the people of the region. When you're mission focused organization, an organization focused on giving back, an organization focused on the community and organization focused on public purposes, it's easier to look at the things that bring us together rather than focus on things that separate us.
So I've been fortunate in the 12 years that I've had the honor to serve the institution,
to carry forward that presidential mantra of focus on mission and let everything else
follow. And it was one of the great pieces
of advice that Dr. Stanton gave me when I first moved to Johnson City.
Dr. Carter
You mentioned community. How do you define community? Is it just the faculty, the staff, and the students? Doesn't it mean, like people in Kingsport and Bristol?
Dr. Noland
There's an internal community and an external community. The internal community is
a community
defined by shared governance at the institution so that's students, faculty, and staff.
The external community, is the region as a whole, and this community doesn't end at Interstate 81. This community is southwest Virginia, northeast Tennessee, eastern Kentucky, and western North Carolina.
You know, there are just as many educators in Ashe, Avery in Watauga County in North Carolina who receive their degrees from here, as there are and Sullivan County and other counties that are in northeast Tennessee.
So I look at the region that we serve as all of the Appalachian Highlands. We produce
the region's nurses,
physicians, bankers, lawyers. We produce the region's educators. We are the economic
engine of this region.
So when I talk about community internally, it's our students, faculty, and staff. But externally, it's all of the people of the Appalachian Highlands.
Dr. Carter
Thank you. And, on a side note on that, you know, it's football season now. And I'd be remiss if I didn't have, comment on this or question on that. And that is for both of you. You know, the football season just got underway. The football team was just in Appalachian State last week.
They're playing at home this week. Can you speak to how sports for each of you has contributed to community and how it contributes to the life of the institution?
Dr. Noland
I'll go first because as you mentioned, football, for better or for worse, when I depart the institution, I'll be remembered as the person who started football. So, when I had the chance to watch the team this weekend, what really was reaffirming for me was the decision that we made to start football and to start a marching band.
It brings the community together. This is northeast Tennessee. It is a region that cares deeply about things that happen in those 100 yards. But it's more than just football. It's a marching band. If you were to go back nine years ago, we didn't own helmets, we didn't own shoulder pads, but we'd also didn't own tubas or bass drums. And now this fall, 370 students are in Dr. Moore's band, the largest marching band in the history of the university.
And Thanksgiving week, they'll be in New York at the Macy's parade. That is an ambassador for this institution that will have a global presence and none of that would have been possible if it weren't for the return of football to the university. You know, I feel a lot better about our team than, certain school whose colors are garnet and gold does down to our south. You know, we played well against Appalachian State.
Look forward to the game this weekend against UVA Wise. And then the North Dakota State has the opportunity to truly be something special. So when I look at athletics, you know it's the front porch of the institution. People pay attention to it and it matters.
White
You know, I think from a student perspective, that's an interesting question because
I don't really know anything about football or basketball or any - I'm not athletic.
But what is funny is like, I'll go to every game because it's fun and there's a community
there, and I think it is visible from the outside, from the external community,
but also internally from students.
You know, like my friends often make fun of me. They're going to listen to this podcast and hear this question.
They're going to die laughing because I know nothing about sports. But I love that community and I love the tailgating and the games. I think because it brings people together around something that's bigger than ourselves.
I mean, we're talking about politics, but like the the sports analogy is so similar,
right? Like there's two different teams and we're coming together and, it's very reflective
of a lot of different things. But I think it's that community that makes it so special.
And it's cool being on this side of it. You know, I was never here when football wasn't
around. And so, it's just a normal thing to me.But hearing that side of it is an interesting
piece
that I think students ought to hear more.
Dr. Noland
And to follow up on your your point around the competitiveness of sports, when I talk to individuals about political divisions in our country, I tell the story of going to Thanksgiving.
When I was a young child at my aunt's house, and all of them were Dallas fans. My
family were Washington
fans, and I despise Dallas. But I loved my family, and I'm hopeful that we can return
to a point as a nation where we start to see each other again as people and not as
Democrats or Republicans. And it seems like just yesterday I was in graduate school,
and when we were learning about political parties, all of the literature was around
the demise of political parties. And are we witnessing the end of party? That was
just 25 years ago.
So all of this is cyclical, but I hope that we can get back to a point where as fans, we see our similarities, and as Americans, we see our similarities more than we see our differences.
Dr. Carter
Well, thank you both. I, I will tell you, I'm a season ticket holder for football
and basketball, and I will tell people
that's my community. I love to go and see the, fellow faculty, staff, and students.
People will come up to me.
It is just a real pleasure. And I always say it's the only acceptable place to hate,
for those four quarters or those nine innings, that is the only time that's acceptable.
And then the after words of people coming together and shaking hands, being civil
towards one another and good sportsmanship, we need more of that in public life,
there's no doubt about it. And, it's great to see every Sunday, excuse me, Saturday,
our own Buccaneers show that spirit for not only our campus, but for the region and
beyond.
Speaking of civility, it's getting harder and harder to do that. And we got about 63, 64 days before the general election. And so the country is split along ideological and political lines. Trent, how do you, feel about where the country is headed?
What do you think we could do to improve, civility, collegiality across the country over the next few months?
White
Sure. We've got an easy answer. I'm just kidding.
I think a lot of what we see today, the negative discourse, the, infighting, whatever you think about the we're facing as a country, I think is just a symptom of something that we're all facing in a lot of different ways. But it's like this idea that we all need to come to the table and humble ourselves and realize that we may not always be right, and we shouldn't necessarily be beholden, to values or beliefs that that we can't back up or that we don't know how to convey to other people. And I think that as we head into an election where tensions are high, I think we should realize that, hey, Thanksgiving is coming up.
How do we have normal conversations about things that may not be political? Because
at the end of the day, it's those relationships that matter more than any policy.
Because without those relationships we wouldn't have any policy, policy wouldn't matter.
And so I think it's refocusing our priorities as a nation, as a community, that I
think is important, but also this idea that everything is always federal, we're always
focusing on federal issues,
but I think it would do - it would serve folks my age well - to realize that there
are things happening on the local level, economic development, education, all these
things that matter, and are not necessarily as partisan as the news makes things out
to be. And I think refocusing on maybe what can we focus on other than some deeply
partisan issues is an important piece that would serve us well.
Dr. Carter
Well thank you.
We're almost at the end of our time here, and I just have a question left for each one of you and Dr. Noland. You alluded to the issue of shared governance earlier. And for people, particularly outside the Academy, they don't know what that means.
Can you briefly explain how that works here?
Dr. Noland
So the concept of shared governance is something that in many ways is unique to American higher education. It's a structure in which decision making across the institution is shared by all of the principal parties, students, faculty, and staff, and administration coordinates the desires, the preferences, the aspirations of those three groups, and attempts to lead an institution to a point of consensus.
But in many respects, shared governance isn't all together that unique to higher education,
because what Trent
just described is shared governance. We live in a participatory democracy. We live
in a democracy in which individuals have an opportunity to have a stake in decisions
that are made. Now, this isn't New England
Direct democracy. But it is an opportunity for us to outline policy principles, to
outline goals, and aspirations, and then to ensure that our leaders move us in that
direction.
But at the institution that is formalized in a process of shared governance through
Staff Senate, Faculty,
Senate, and SGA, ultimately that moves up to our Board of Trustees, of which Trustee
White is a member.
Dr. Carter
Thank you so much. And one last thing. What's next for you?
White
I take the LSAT Friday. Hoping that one goes well, after that, applying for law school, you know, we'll see what doors open after I take the test.
I'm excited to see. But, focusing on that and then applying to some post-grad scholarships and things of that nature. But, it's an interesting environment being on the tail end of the craziness that was the last four years. The three years, I guess.
Dr. Carter
Well, thank you both, gentlemen, for coming in today. And, it has been eye opening and, informative. Thank you so much. And thank you for speaking politically.
Dr. Noland
Thank you.
White
Thank you.
Dr. Carter
Thank you for joining us on this episode of "Politically Speaking" an ETSU podcast about freedom and citizenship. We hope you enjoyed our discussion and found it thought provoking.
Before we wrap up, we want to remind you about ETSU Votes, an initiative led by the office of Leadership and Civic Engagement at ETSU. ETSU Votes is dedicated to fostering active citizenship by providing resources and support for voter registration, engagement and education.
Last year, ETSU was honored by Tennessee Secretary of State Tre Hargett for our outstanding efforts to promote voter registration. Remember, your voice matters, and participating in the electoral process is a powerful way to make it heard.
To learn more about ETSU Votes and how you can get involved, visit etsu.edu/votes. Thank you for listening.
Be sure to tune in to our next episode as we continue to explore the crucial concepts and topics of personal freedom and engage citizenship. Until then, stay informed, stay engaged, and keep speaking politically.
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East Tennessee State University was founded in 1911 with a singular mission: to improve the quality of life for people in the region and beyond. Through its world-class health sciences programs and interprofessional approach to health care education, ETSU is a highly respected leader in rural health research and practices. The university also boasts nationally ranked programs in the arts, technology, computing, and media studies. ETSU serves approximately 14,000 students each year and is ranked among the top 10 percent of colleges in the nation for students graduating with the least amount of debt.
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