Politically Speaking: Episode 7
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Transcript
Richard Lovette
Welcome to Politically Speaking, an ETSU podcast about freedom and citizenship. Hosted by Dr. Daryl Carter, a professor and scholar of political history.
Each week, we dive into the essential topics of personal freedom and engaged citizenship, exploring what it means to be an active and responsible citizen in today's world.
Join us as we talk politics with members of the ETSU community, asking important questions and seeking meaningful answers.
Dr. Carter
Hello everyone.
This is Daryl Carter with Politically Speaking.
Today I'm with Josh Smith and Macy Strader.
Welcome.
Smith
Thank you, Dr. Carter.
Dr. Carter
Well, today we want to talk a little bit about yourselves, but we also want to talk about your views and experiences with the free press.
And so, Josh, I'm going to start with you. Where is home for you?
Smith
Home for me is, and I'm so thankful to say it, right here in Northeast Tennessee.
I live in Elizabethton.
I've lived there for years.
Grew up there.
My family's there.
Was born in Bristol, lived briefly in Mountain City, and then rolled into Elizabethton.
So I've done the round trip and this is home.
Dr. Carter
Awesome.
And where did you go to college?
Smith
I went to the University of Tennessee in Knoxville, so there was a four-year stint in the big city. There, and it was there that I discovered the world
of journalism and broadcast journalism, and got a chance to sort of dip my toe in the water of what it looked like and felt like to be a journalist.
Of course, that was in a completely different era, where there was cigarette smoking, manual typewriters, and no internet.
You know, which Macy's like, "Wait, what?"
Did that ever happen on planet Earth?
And it did, it did.
And I will tell you, and you probably remember this, but you won't, Macy, and that is in the Culp Center, you used to be able to buy your cigarettes.
You could buy your lighter.
You could smoke in The Cave.
You would walk in there in the early mid-90s and there'd just be a haze of cigarette smoke.
So, we don't speak of it lovingly.
It's just the way it was
Just the way it was.
Dr. Carter
Well, that is wonderful.
I did my doctoral work at the University of Memphis, so we have a little grudge with Knoxville.
Smith
Well, that's just jealousy, but that's okay.
Dr. Carter
At any rate.
So, Macy, tell me a little bit about where you're from.
Strader
So I am from small town Rutledge, Tennessee.
Usually when I tell people that, they don't even know where that is
It's about two hours away.
One red light town.
So this to me, coming here, was like moving to a city.
And I'll tell people that, and they'll be like, "Oh, sweetheart, this is not a city."
But that's how it feels for me.
There's a lot of people.
Dr. Carter
I've come from California and much bigger cities
And people will say, you know,
Johnson City is a big city, you know, and I'll say it's really not.
But I see how you got there. So that is wonderful.
And, which high school did you graduate from?
Strader
I went to Grainger High School.
Dr. Carter
Okay. Excellent, excellent
Thank you.
And what brought you to ETSU?
Strader
So I am actually in the Roan Scholars leadership program.
That was my dream my senior year of high school.
To get into that program, I didn't apply for any other university.
This was the one for me and that was my program.
And I've been very blessed to have those resources and to have that be something that I'm a part of here.
And that is what brought me here.
Dr. Carter
And we would encourage all our listeners to look up the Roan Scholars program.
It's the premier program here at East Tennessee State University, and former Lieutenant Colonel Scott Jeffress, who is the director of the program, would be happy to speak with you about potential opportunities for you there.
Josh, where do you work?
I understand you're no longer downtown.
We'll get to that here in a second.
But where are you today?
Smith
Well, today, my primary role, in terms of employment, is as the director of consumer patient advocacy across Ballad Health.
So that means I'm in their hospitals and their medical practices, essentially leading the effort to advocate for patients. Getting health care is hard.
And oftentimes there's a lot of unnecessary suffering that happens here and everywhere, really, where you have to try to go and get help when you need it.
And so my work and years of reporting has trained me well for being able to sort of learn how to be a voice for sometimes people who feel voiceless.
So that's a lot of my work.
I'm also, for the first time, well, this is my second semester as an adjunct professor here at ETSU, which still seems so funny, especially for people who know me.
They're like, "Dude, you're not a professor."
But I was really pleased to be offered a chance to teach a course through, and I don't even know what to call it
now, Dr. Carter, because it's newly realigned curriculum here at ETSU, but in their College of Communications.
Really broad, their electronic media, something like that.
Anyway, and I'm only an employee there, you know, so I should know this, but it's radio, television news, introduction to radio and television news.
Dr. Carter
So in the Department of Media and Communications.
Smith
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yes, yes.
I was hoping you would throw me a bone there.
Dr. Carter
Well, for our listeners, we are, across the campus, very excited about our new academic structure, which just took effect on July 1st.
And so the Department of Media and Communication used to be in the College of Arts and Sciences.
It has moved over to the College of Business.
And they are doing quite well there.
And so I'm excited to hear that you're with us at least part of the time.
Yeah.
We had the pleasure of interviewing John Goetz just a few weeks ago, to hear about the government relations side.
So that is fantastic.
Macy, what about for you? What's the dream?
Strader
The main dream is to screenwrite.
I've always wanted to be a writer.
I think that's the big goal.
But I always wanted to start in journalism because I've kind of fallen in love with it, obviously.
But writing in general, in all forms, is the goal.
Dr. Carter
Well, at a time where there is a lot of distrust of media, there is a lot of anger towards media.
It is very important that we have skilled people in that field that are filled with integrity, because democracy in the country depends on it.
I understand you work for the East Tennessean
Strader
Yes.
Dr. Carter
For our listeners, the East Tennessean is a student-run newspaper here at the university that does just absolutely great work in reporting about what is happening on campus, whether it's the president's office or programs or something else.
Sports.
Can you tell me about your role with the East Tennessean?
Strader
Yeah, so I am executive editor of the East Tennessean, which, as you said, is a student-run newspaper, and we are completely student-run.
So we have a faculty advisor who helps us with guidance and general upkeep. And then the students are the ones who are finding the stories, writing the stories, taking the photographs, editing, and then printing and getting them distributed.
And so it's kind of a learning opportunity for students who are interested in journalism, and journalism is a bit of a dying area because we are going more towards social media, as we talked about a little bit earlier.
Written journalism isn't as popular anymore.
So we have the newspaper, but we also work with a website.
We have an email chain that we send out, and then we have our social media on several different platforms that we work on.
And it's for students to learn how to be good journalists, and proper journalists, and how to write unbiased media.
And I love it. I fell in love with it pretty quickly.
I personally never wanted to be a journalist, because I always thought that it was something super scary, that they were getting so much hate because of people's different biases.
But then I joined the summer before my freshman year, just because I wanted to make sure that I was writing and fell in love with it super quickly.
There's just something so special about being able to connect with people one on one and hear their stories, and getting to be the person that shares other people's stories.
So it's amazing, like the best opportunity that I've had on campus so far.
Dr. Carter
But now you mentioned it's a student-run newspaper, but I have a question.
And I think you're the right person to ask, does the president plant stories in your newspaper?
Strader
He does not.
Nobody plants stories in the newspaper.
Dr. Carter
Okay.
Well, I bring that up because it should be an obvious answer.
But there's a lot of people out there that think that that's what happens with media, that people put stories in there.
It may not be true, or it's designed just to get at you. And what's really valuable, and I've read the East Tennessean for decades at this point, is
that these are hardworking people who are putting forward facts and evidence as they see it, along with informed opinion.
So thank you so much.
Dr. Carter
Josh, you spent quite a bit of time yourself on television in recent decades.
Can you talk to us about your work as an anchor, as a reporter at WJHL?
Smith
I'm a little bit intimidated sitting beside Macy, because I happen to know that it is no small task to become a Roan Scholar.
So, congratulations to you, that is a highly selective, very competitive scholarship.
So don't let her fool you when she starts this humble pie business.
Congratulations. That's great.
Gosh.
You know, for me at, you know, at the University of Tennessee,
I rolled in as a poly sci major, and then I found out you had to take math.
And that was the end of that road.
And I made my way to Circle Park, where I learned about, like, you discovered
journalism and college and, I did not work for the Daily Beacon newspaper there.
Instead, I went the broadcast route, which is, according to the journalism
professor, was an easier thing to do because you could make a mistake.
And there it wasn't in black and white copy. Right.
Because in those days there was no print component at all.
Unlike now, television news, which you have to be good at both, because everything we do on the air, we have to do online.
And, you can read a lot of online news reporting by television stations.
I shall name none.
And you're like, I don't think this person knows how to write for print.
Had it ever happened to you? Once or twice.
But anyway, it was, for me, let's see, five years.
Four years at WC Webb, the NBC in Bristol, got a part time job before that at the NBC and, Knoxville, and, took a break for about a year from television, because I was decided that I decided that was just not for me.
Turned right back around and took the morning anchor job at WJHL in 1999.
And I was there for 24 years, until July of 2023 when I left there.
And for me, it's been, this is going to be the real test because this is the first election,presidential election,
I've not covered since … Well, I was working at the college radio station in the 90s when I think Bill Clinton was running.
Gosh, I mean, so that long.
So if you find me in my closet rocking back and forth crying on election night because I'm not in the mix, which is the most exciting
night of the year.
Dr. Carter
Well, I will tell our audience that, when it comes to the difference between print and broadcast journalists, we talk about politics on here a lot
And, a lot of Americans don't know that the print journalists started to lose their momentum and their power during the Kennedy years.
As president, Kennedy began to use television to communicate and gave these famous addresses and, and press conferences, and the old executive office building next to the white House and which all the,the broadcast journalists were there and these tough, grizzled cigarette and cigar chomping journalists were finding that people like Peter Jennings and Dan Rather and others, Walter Cronkite, were now the toast of the town.
So, just a little factoid there for our audience.
So you're definitely going to miss television this fall?
Smith
I think so, yeah the elections.
You know, I say this with a bit of mixed emotions, though, Dr. Carter, because the last election was not fun.
It was not fun, especially for, I would think a lot of broadcasters in areas that maybe leaned heavily for, the incumbent president who lost because I saw a level of vitriol and an anger toward all aspects of media, from people who felt like the election had been stolen.
And it was a huge determining factor for me.
And coming to the point that I realized, maybe, maybe this brand or type of journalism for me isn't as effective as it used to be, in that people did not trust that what we were saying was true.
We heard it directly from them.
And that was very, very difficult for me in the because it was the pandemic as well, when so much distrust about public health and then a presidential election that was so strife ridden was strife.
So it was a difficult time.
Dr. Carter
Well, I will tell our audience, you know, once again that there's no credible evidence brought today, that would dispute the outcome of the 2020 election.
How do you make a deal with that issue of distrust?
And journalism?
Strader
Honestly, I think that's one of the greatest issues that we have with the paper because it's student run.
So there is going to always be that level of distrust because we are learning and it's a learning opportunity for us.
And a lot of us, it's our first time working in journalism or even just attempting to accomplish something like that.
But I think being transparent and trying our best to, you know, be a proper journalist and put out information in a way that is succinct and professional, always comes across much better because right not everybody thinks they're a journalist.
But not everybody is a good one.
So there is a lot of key details that really go into proper journalism and being an unbiased source that a lot of people aren't aware of.
And there's just so much to learn in journalism.
And I think taking that, stride to educating yourself, and really working on being a bettejournalist
is what's going to make a better outlook for the paper, because you can see that in the work that we do.
Dr. Carter
So let me follow up with, you know, there's 250 plus student organizations on campus, Greek letter organizations, student honor societies.
There's the president, his immediate staff, all the faculty, etc..
How do you decide which news you're going to cover and which news you're going to publish?
Because I do think that that is something that a lot of Americans do not –They're little confused about.
How do you decide which stories go first?
I think that plays into some of the distrust.
Strader
Yes. Well, that is actually part of my job, choosing the stories that go out week by week.
I try to do the most pressing things.
Immediate news, anything notable that people need to know about.
And then when it comes to just, like, fun activities and things that people are hosting, or want marketed, then it would be something that is coming up soon, that people can anticipate or something that happened really recently, that people would want to read about right now.
It's really in the timing of things.
Dr. Carter
You have the power you have that you get to decide, don't you?
Strader
I do, it's a lot of influence.
One of the cool things about UCSC in this year is we have worked to expand so that we can offer it in different languages, so it can reach even more people.
And I'm building that team right now.
And one of the things that I've had to juggle is we have less translators than we do writers.
So which stories are the most important from the bunch that I've already cut down for the paper that week?
And really something that someone said to me on my translation team a few weeks ago was, you know, people want to read about pressing news, but they also want to read about this restaurant that opened downtown that you would think wouldn't be that important.
So it's kind of finding the balance between, like, what people need to know and what people are interested in learning about them.
Dr. Carter
Okay, that sounds great.
Josh, when we think about consumers of media, the landscape has changed quite a bit. You can find somebody to validate your bias no matter what it is.
I often joke that if you know, you're in this place, you can go to this organization, you go to this other place, it'll feed you this, there is some of that.
As the media has become more diverse in recent decades, especially with the advent of the internet.
But the Pew Research Center, announced earlier this year that, Americans still see value in local news and local journalist.
Why do you think that?
Why is that the case? Maybe the people in the region trusted you more than they would trust who they saw on ABC or CBS or CNN or Fox or any of the others?
Smith
That's a great question.
I think there's this inherent understanding that
if you're on local news, you're essentially their neighbor.
And there's a lot of effort done to market that and try to show our viewers and our listeners and our readers that we're local journalists.
We care about the things that are never, ever, ever going to make it into the Washington Post, but it matters to you.
And so I think there's that connection.
I'm really curious what's driven the distrust of national media?
I mean, I think the gap is not so much that they don't trust us, is that they don't trust the National press in large numbers.
And I can't help but think that part of it is the the press's own fault in that we've given them the fodder.
And now we I mean, the national press mostly, we gave them the ammunition to question us because we began to section off and develop products that were simply based around a political leaning.
So you have your, you know, which channel to watch.
You mentioned, you know, you can find anybody to verify your bias.
If you're a conservative, you know, which cable station to watch, right?
You we already know we have to say the word.
You know it.
If you are a if you've lean left, you know which cable news you want to watch.
We don't even have to say the letters, you know, and therefore people tune in.
I think half the time they think they're watching news and what they're actually watching is opinion.
And then they begin to think that person's lying.
They're biased, when in reality it was … They never pretended to be anything other than an opinion broadcaster.
Right
Whatever. So there's just, I feel like that that trust really gap really is at the national level.
And I think that the local trust is, is a essence, kind of like I always felt like viewers were watching me because they didn't feel like there was another place where they could get news.
They sort of ruled out the other ones, you know, the national media.
But we could trust that bald dude that worked down the street, you know, because they –I was one of them.
And you may run into him at the mall or, oh, usually gas station or something like that.
I mean, I'm usually looking like a mess at Lowe's when I made the most people who go, hey, I know you right?
Dr. Carter
And the internet plays a role in this, right?
That newspapers are not being covered as much. I am sure that you're probably tracking your own dad
on who's looking at these East Tennessean stories and online.
And it's probably shifted much more to an online type of readership then, print.
We still have the newspapers.
And Roger Stout, for example, which I admit, I read and get my fingers inky.
But a lot of people are reading it online.
So, a question for both of you is that do you see a problem with the fact that people are going, to the internet, combined with the fact that there are incredible news deserts developing all across the country, where local news is literally being wiped out?
How do you both feel about that?
Strader
You know, I had my advisor say something in a meeting a few weeks ago about print news, and he pointed out that, yes, we are going more towards online and social media, but it's becoming retro and like cool to have a print newspaper.
People still take the print newspapers on campus, I pay attention.
Our racks are usually almost completely gone by the end of the week.
So, I mean, we say that we're going to social media, but then, you know, we look and we see that people are still taking print newspapers.
And I think, you know, that could be a shift in generation.
And I do think it's something to do with like the vintage appeal of things. And it just feels more trustworthy when you've got it in your hands rather than when you're scrolling on social media.
Because I don't believe, like, 50% of the things that I see pop up on my social media.
And I think there's something about actively seeking out information that makes it feel more credible rather than when it's just brought to you.
And that's the main issue, with social media.
Dr. Carter
Okay.
Thank you.
Smith
Yeah.
That, that's such a great point.
You know, I think there is an appeal because it is, a simpler, calmer way to consume your news just with a piece of paper in your hand.
I sure do apply it to Dr. Carter.
I'm fond of an inky finger.
You know, I can just, hold it.
It's like a book, you know?
I'm very concerned about what's happening to local news
If just if you look at our market, which is northeast Tennessee and southwest Virginia, over the past 20 to 30 years, we've seen every community
if we went from having a situation where every community had a very robust, profitable newspaper that hired a staff of journalists and photographers and, had a newsroom full of people to now we have a, just us, a few left and they are really struggling and most of their product is being consumed online.
And I'm interested to find out what's happening, because most of them are trying to make you pay to get their content.
They have to turn a profit.
So a lot of it's now behind a paywall.
And I don't meet many people who are willing to pay for that unless they want something like the classifieds or the obituaries, and then they'll go behind the paywall.
So we've lost local papers to a great extent.
They're still there.
They're still trying, still doing great work.
But it's nothing like what it used to be.
Local radio, almost nonexistent in our market now.
I mean, it's here, but it's that local portion of it that was, that had journalism in it has diminished greatly.
Television is holding on.
But we went from a three television station market essentially to a two.
And I'm hopeful that they'll continue to do well.
But people are consuming their news differently.
They're consuming it online.
They don't want to pay for it.
And I'll add this, Macy,
I've noticed this on campus here.
Dr. Carter, when I taught my class this semester, I a few weeks ago, I opened up the session.
I said, hey, who in this?
Who watches local news in this room?
This is a senior-level class.
They were very honest.
They felt I could tell they felt guilty, but they were not watching local news.
They weren't getting local papers.
They didn't have televisions in their room.
They have screens, right? Like, you know, tablets and computers. So, it has radically changed
within the last 25 years.
And I think that is troubling.
Dr. Carter
That's one of the reasons why we're doing this podcast, is because we do want people to understand how they interact with society, with, with government, etc..
And the fact of the matter is, is that your local governments have often a more, heavy footprint on your daily life than, say, what's happening in Washington.
And so it could be, you know, issues over, a new ambulance contract.
It could be an issue over paving the roads in the West Walnut corridor.
It could be something having to do with an economic development project in North Johnson City.
But it's important.
And so we need people to engage this.
Understand, what is happening.
Smith
You make a great point. Now, I want to add this.
I talked recently, you know, I thought for years as a reporter that I was the biggest pest in the world.
And like, usually, government leaders and business leaders didn't want to see us coming
Right?
And I think that was right, because it was our job to hold them accountable and to ask the questions they didn't want to answer.
On the days when they wish, we just go away, right?
That was our job and we did it to to advocate for the public.
Interestingly enough, I have heard from several lately who've told me they're worried about the loss of local news because they see that it's the free press that holds the powerful accountable.
Right?
And if the free press isn't there, then who's going to do it?
Dr. Carter
That's right.
Nobody's going to want to see those reporters downtown and say, oh, we want to see President Noland getting interviewed.
We want to see business leaders being interviewed about what's happening so that the public is informed about their lives, their communities, their citizenship. So, yeah
Thank you. That's so important.
Macy, what is the most pressing?
I'm just curious.
You know, you got so much responsibility.
What is the most pressing issue facing the Tennessean?
Strader
Well, I had mentioned before, we are a student run newspaper, so obviously people are going to take everything that we do with a grain of salt no matter how hard we try.
And we are trying very hard.
Everyone with the newspaper is interested in going into journalism or they're interested in journalism for right now, and they want to continue growing and learning and, they want us to be taken seriously.
I think one of the best pieces of advice I've ever been given in my time with the paper was from a previous executive editor, right before I, like, ran down one of the presidential candidates, for the United States a few years ago at a conference, she told me that I needed to remember that we are not a campus newspaper.
We are a real newspaper, and we have every right to be in the same rooms as any other outlet.
And I've kind of taken that, as inspiration for my leadership style with the paper and taking everything very seriously and understanding that we are real journalists.
But with that, obviously we are still students and not just not being taken seriously.
Sometimes we have classes, we have organizations, we have stuff going on with family.
Some of us have to work other jobs.
So sometimes it's a little harder because it's not a full-time job.
It's something that we have to put on the back burner of other things, sometimes.
And it's how do we be lenient with the students that we work with, but also help them to grow as real professional journalists?
Dr. Carter
Excellent.
So the final question I have today for both of you is, how can media today help to restore a sense of civility and trust in society and, what is obviously a challenging and hyperpartisan environment?
Smith
Now, if you can come up with the answer to that, Dr. Carter, we all can take a nice long cruise together.
I really do think, you know, there's going to have to be a financial component of this that gets settled out because journalists like Macy and others deserve to earn an income, right? And so we're going to have to realign the model of how that works.
Gone are the days that, you know, someone bought an ad in the paper and that paid the salary of the court reporter or the city hall reporter.
Those things or those days are changing dramatically.
So figuring out that huge issue of the economic component of local press.
But then just I think realizing the crisis in and trust right now, and that's what it is, is, I believe, the fault of bad actors who have tried to get into journalism, and have made a mess of it by creating these hyper-partisan enclaves siloed out left and right, and hopes that whoever yells the loudest is going to get the highest ratings.
Are we even surprised that we live in a world where it's who can yell the loudest on Main Street?
Yeah, and so I think about that business component and then a recommitment to doing what you're talking about, serving the public and serving civility.
Well, thank you both.
And I just take a moment of privilege here to just speak just briefly.
You know, I've done a lot of interviews in media in my career, and I have the utmost respect for for journalists.
These are really hard jobs.
And when cubby, journalists in particular, who, getting paid peanuts you know, we are very grateful for the work that you do.
But, you know, when we get to this issue of free press, we're also talking, about how we relate to one another, what we want the country to look like.
We're talking about the difference between fact and hyperbole and, you know, evidence and, you know, opinion.
And it reminds me of just how important East Tennessee State University is, because this institution, regardless of what discipline you're in, engages
students in ways that are designed for them to think critically around a host of issues.
Whether you're talking about ancient Greece or you're talking about politics in the 21st century, or you're talking about something else entirely.
And so, you know, the value that we provide, you know, in part is that we train our students to think critically. We never tell them what to think.
We only teach them how to think, how to evaluate evidence and how to make sense of it.
And so we are really providing, a high service, to the region and beyond by training our students.
And there's this really wholesome, professional way that that is going to benefit society going forward.
We just need more of them.
And so, with that in mind, I want to thank both of you for being here today.
It is much appreciated.
This was fabulous.
And thank you for speaking politically.
Thank you for joining us on this episode of "Politically Speaking" an ETSU podcast about freedom and citizenship. We hope you enjoyed our discussion and found it thought provoking.
Before we wrap up, we want to remind you about ETSU Votes, an initiative led by the office of Leadership and Civic Engagement at ETSU. ETSU Votes is dedicated to fostering active citizenship by providing resources and support for voter registration, engagement and education.
Last year, ETSU was honored by Tennessee Secretary of State Tre Hargett for our outstanding efforts to promote voter registration. Remember, your voice matters, and participating in the electoral process is a powerful way to make it heard.
To learn more about ETSU Votes and how you can get involved, visit etsu.edu/votes. Thank you for listening.
Be sure to tune in to our next episode as we continue to explore the crucial concepts and topics of personal freedom and engage citizenship. Until then, stay informed, stay engaged, and keep speaking politically.
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